Christian religion that denies the Lord Jesus Christ died for a particular people, His elect chosen before the foundation of the world for God’s glory alone, leads to many wayward doctrines.
The unbiblical teaching that Christ shed His blood and died for every person in the same way bears unbiblical theological fruit such as conditional election, conditional security, and even universalism. Truly, if Christ merely made salvation possible, there is never a guarantee one soul would be saved, and those who would be saved can never have true biblical assurance of salvation. Moreover, many who hold to that position also believe a Christian can lose their salvation if they do not continue in belief, or they might sin their way out of eternal life (which wouldn’t be eternal life would it?). Ultimately, these errors are the result of not understanding (or denying) God’s sovereign work in salvation, which result in not understanding critical doctrines such as regeneration, justification, and sanctification.
Romans 5:10 Proves Limited Atonement
Romans 5:10 nails the coffin shut for the teaching of unlimited atonement (the belief that Christ died for all people without exception). Though there are many verses in Scripture that support the doctrine of limited atonement (sometimes referred to as particular redemption or definite atonement), Romans 5:10 really hones in on this glorious truth. It reads:
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Why is this verse so glorious? It is because the death of the Son of God guarantees salvation for those whom Christ died. Salvation is not just possible, it is sure. Yet, if one denies particular redemption, not only could they not have real confidence that any would be saved, but they must believe in universalism if they are to be consistent. I don’t mean they necessarily embrace universalism, but their adherence to unlimited atonement and rejection of universalism exposes a major inconsistency in their theology, especially in light of Romans 5:10.
Who are the enemies of God?
Sinners are the enemies of God. All humans by nature are alienated from God because of our sinful nature and our transgressions against Him (Ephesians 2:3). But Romans 5:10 and Colossians 1:21-22 says God’s enemies were reconciled to Him through the death of Christ:
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him
Thus, the question must be asked: are all people reconciled to God? And what does it mean to be reconciled? Let’s answer the second question first.
What Is Reconciliation?
To be reconciled is to be brought back into right relationship with God. Through the sin of Adam, all men became alienated from God; yet, through the obedient life of Christ (Christ’s active obedience), many will be restored to God, resulting in eternal life (Romans 5:12-21). It is Christ’s active obedience that gives us the righteousness we need to enter into God’s grace.
But it was Christ’s passive obedience that was necessary to reconcile sinners to God. 2 Corinthians 5:21 tells us the perfect Lamb of God took sin upon Himself. This is known as imputation, meaning that God transferred the sin of all who would believe in Christ to Christ, and God punished Jesus for the crimes of those who deserved the punishment. So it is because our sin was transferred, or imputed, to Christ who received the punishment, that the righteousness, or perfection, of Christ could be imputed to us who did not deserve the pardon for the crimes we committed.
Are All Enemies Reconciled?
This brings us back to the first question. Are all of God’s enemies reconciled to Him? The clear teaching of Scripture is no, all of God’s enemies, or all people, are not reconciled to God because many will be cast into the lake of fire after facing the Great White Throne when they will be judged according to their deeds (Revelation 20:11-14). But Romans 5:10 says that God’s enemies were reconciled to God through the death of Christ – so what are the implications of this verse if all people are not reconciled to God?
2,000 years ago, the death of the Glorious Lamb of God accomplished what it intended, and that is to secure the salvation of Jesus’ people (Matthew 1:21). Those who the Father chose before the foundation of the world had their salvation purchased by the blood of Christ (Ephesians 1:7). The death of Christ guaranteed their reconciliation. His death reconciled God’s elect. “It is finished” the Gospel writers tell us. If Christ died for every individual, all individuals would be reconciled to God, because the text says that we were reconciled through the death of Christ. But, no human has ever existed who was reconciled by the death of Christ, but will not be given eternal life. To be even more clear, there are no reconciled sinners in hell.
Justification and Glorification Guaranteed
So now that God’s elect are reconciled through the death of Christ, this means the reconciliation guarantees the justification of God’s elect. How much more, verse 10 tells us, having been reconciled through His death, that we would be saved by His life! This is a promise, beloved – Christ’s death reconciles the elect, and His righteous life guarantees the justification of the elect. In fact, Romans 4:25 tells us Jesus was raised from the dead for our justification!
And yet there is more good news. Not only does Christ’s death reconcile the elect for whom Christ died, and not only does this reconciliation guarantee the elect’s justification, but it also guarantees their glorification. If sinners have been reconciled, which means the enmity between the sinner and God has been removed, and He has justified them, meaning He has pardoned their crimes for the sake of Christ, He promises He will glorify them. Romans 8:30 makes this clear:
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
That’s a guarantee, beloved. Those whom He justified He will glorify, and this verse indicates it is already a present reality for the elect from a positional standpoint.
Be Reconciled to God
Finally, Romans 5:11 reads:
More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
These promises of God also have a tension – we must actually receive the reconciliation. We must lay aside our own hostility to the Gospel, and “be reconciled”. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:20,
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Though Christ’s elect will be justified based on His death and resurrection, it is only through repentance and faith that reconciliation is realized for the sinner. If you never yield yourself to the Lordship of Christ, you were not reconciled through His death 2,000 years ago. Make sure you know Christ – and be reconciled to God.
Recommended Reading
airō 
Vickie Kline
November 19, 2012
I believe that one reason our country is in the condition it is in is because of the lack of understand of the doctrines of grace on the part of much of the Christian Church. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Holy Spirit will draw men to Christ when He is lifted up. Instead, when we think it is OUR responsibility to get people to believe, we cater to man, think of entertaining ways to get him to church, water down the gospel, so he will not be offended, etc.. People are not taught about God’s sovereignty in all aspects of life, including salvation. Hence, that kind of church will do what it can to help man believe. They are not aware that we are all dead, not just mostly dead, and cannot make any decision for God except that He quicken us through His Spirit. I felt like I was born again again when I learned of the doctrines of grace! It is so comforting to know that God is in total control of every aspect of my salvation and my life. If the Church had kept preaching the truth, understanding that “Salvation is of the Lord”, then maybe so many wouldn’t have such shallow faith and would know that the preaching of the Word is what brings people to Christ. It must include faith and repentance, not just asking Jesus into our hearts and only acknowledging we are sinners. The devil knows he’s a sinner! This is a most wonderful doctrine and I praise God for letting me understand the truth! “What do we have that we have not received?” 1 COR 4:7
wpuymac
November 19, 2012
You’re probably one of those people that believes that all that the Father gives to Jesus will come to Him, and whoever comes to Him He will never cast out also.
Vickie Kline
November 19, 2012
Not sure if you are addressing me or the author of the article, but if it’s me, you are spot on!
Abe
November 20, 2012
Huh?
Jesus did die for everyone. So why isn’t everyone saved? Because not everyone believes (John 3:18).
Calvinism is so false, because it seeks to do an end-run around John 3:16, and go straight to “saved without believing”, which means not being saved.
Justin Edwards
November 20, 2012
Abe, I’m going to give you one to chance to engage in thoughtful, critical discussion without hurling logical fallacies. If Jesus died for everyone, that would mean all are reconciled because Romans 5:10 says we are reconciled by His death. Do you believe, then, there are reconciled sinners in hell “because they did not believe”? I look forward to your response.
Abe
November 20, 2012
Romans 5:10 is speaking only to already saved people, not to the unsaved. The unsaved need to go back to John 3:18. It is faith in Jesus that saves. But calvinism seeks to go right around that, and be already saved without having first believed anything. That’s not a logical fallacy. That is the bottom line of the calvinistic error.
Justin Edwards
November 20, 2012
Abe, you didn’t answer the question. Are there reconciled sinners in hell? Also, Calvinism teaches one may be elect, but not yet saved. But if one is elect, then they will ultimately be saved because Christ died for the person whom the Father gave Him, and the Holy Spirit will regenerate the one the Father chose and whom Christ died. There is no conflict of purpose within the Trinity.
Abe
November 20, 2012
There are no believers in hell. Only believers are reconciled. So I answered your question with John 3:18 (which I could have done with hundreds of other Scriptures too).
Foreknowledge comes before everything, the Lord knows who will choose to believe, but doesn’t cause that belief. That’s how a person can have free will and still be elect. It is foreknowledge that caused Calvin to go off the tracks. He basically lifted his entire theology on this from Augustine anyway. But the Bible refutes all of it.
Justin Edwards
November 20, 2012
Abe, Calvin is irrelevant to the discussion, so please leave him out of it. You said that only believers are reconciled (and I agree) – but that does not address the fact that it is Christ’s death that reconciles us to God. So if Christ’s death reconciles all people, your view must acknowledge that there are reconciled sinners in hell (because it is Christ’s death that reconciles).
To be more clear as to my position, Christ’s death reconciles the elect, which means all the elect will be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to repent and believe in Christ, thus “receiving” the reconciliation. In other words, no one who was reconciled at the cross will not be reconciled and justified by faith. Both are true and work together, as both are graces of God toward the elect.
Justin Edwards
November 20, 2012
Well, I can’t say I didn’t try to have a reasonable discussion with you, Abe. Unfortunately, that will be all you’ll be allowed to post here. And for what it’s worth, I’ve not studied any of Calvin’s work.
Vickie Kline
November 20, 2012
Christ’s sacrifice was SUFficient to include all men, but it was only EFficient for the elect. God doesn’t waste anything, including His Son’s death on the cross. It was purposeful for those He chose before the foundation of the world to be His. If Jesus died for everyone, then God punished Christ for everyone’s sin, then those who reject Christ will be punished in hell forever for that same sin that Jesus suffered for. That is double jeopardy. It’s not allowed in law, and I can’t imagine that God would have done that to His Son. Also, in Scripture when it says “all”, it doesn’t always mean every single person or type without exception. Like when it says “God so loved the world”. That doesn’t necessarily mean every single person without exception (God “hates all workers of iniquity” PS 5:5b. “God is angry with the wicked every day”. PS 7:11b). It can mean all kinds of people in the world–men, women, children, blacks, whites, etc..
I’ve been where you are–when I first was learning about Calvinism, it made me angry, because of some of the same reasons you have given. But, as I kept studying it, the light bulbs went off. Things started making more sense. One of the things that helped me to understand it was the verse “Whosoever will may come”. I kept stressing the “whosoever”, but my son, who had introduced us to these doctrines, stressed the “will”. Anyone MAY come to Christ if they WILL to come to Christ. But, no one can will it, because we are all dead in our sins and trespasses. What can a dead person do? When Jesus called Lazarus from the grave, He revived him, then called him out. If Lazarus was still dead, would he have heard Jesus call him to come out? Not a chance. Regeneration comes first, then justification. It’s all part of God’s plan. He must make us alive before we can hear the call to come to Him. And He accomplished all of that when Christ died on the cross for His elect. If you take a look at ACTS 13:48, it is also very clear that people are appointed to salvation. “And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Before I knew the doctrines of grace, I would probably have glossed over that verse and read it, “As many as believed were appointed to eternal life.” But, to read it accurately, we see that it says that only the people who were APPOINTED to eternal life believed.
Calvinism makes much of God, not man, and that is one reason why so many are so against it. When we left the church we were attending at the time to attend one which taught these wonderful teachings, a couple of the deacons from the previous church came to visit us. When we explained what we then believed, he said, “Who is God to say who can and can’t be saved?!!” Now this was a very nice, godly man. If he had even listened to what he was saying, he never would have uttered it. Who is God? The question is more like, “Who is man that God is mindful of him?”
If you are serious about wanting to know the truth, Abe, then ask God to show you. My husband and I did and we embrace the doctrines of grace, all five points, heartily. They are the truth and they will change the way you see yourself and God.
Justin Edwards
November 20, 2012
Vickie, pay no attention to wpuymac. He only likes to stir up trouble…lol…in all serious though, his tongue in cheek exposes the flaw in other teachings as Scripture clearly teaches what wpuymac posted (John 6:37: All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.)
And I’ll give a hearty amen to your original comment, Vickie. One of the problems in America is a lukewarm, liberal, carnal church that waters down the gospel and eschews sound doctrine. It does not have a high view of God or Scripture, and the result has been a degradation of American society.
Vickie Kline
November 20, 2012
So, you think, Abe, that you are able to do whatever you want and God will just accept you? What about “Faith without works is dead” in JAMES? Our salvation is NOT of works, as Christ said, “It is finished!” on the cross and rose from the dead. God the Father accepted His sacrifice. But, if you think you can behave in any way you want and still go to heaven, then you are tending towards antinomianism. That is abusing the grace God offers. If you think that you can just believe, then do whatever you want, you are misinformed and you’d better check to see if you are in the faith. If we are truly saved, we are always saved and we will persevere. But, we must also be holy, for “without holiness, no one will see the Lord.” That is not a work to get to heaven, but a by-product of true saving faith.
Augustine believed these same things and he was way before Calvin’s time. ROM 9 teaches about election, which was written by the Apostle Paul. We do have a free will, which is always bent to sinning. Anything that we do that is not of faith is sin. God says that there is no one who is good, we have all gone our own way, etc.. Adam was the only one created who could have made a choice for God, but we all know how that turned out, which is why we are in the mess we are in. You are defending free will more than you are God’s right as Sovereign and Creator to do what He wants with His creation. You sound like you want it both ways–to be captain of your own ship, but to have God’s life preserver, when your ship goes down.
The Seeking Disciple
November 26, 2012
So are the elect eternally justified since Christ was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-21)? If Christ died to secure their salvation then He died so that they could be justified unto faith and not by faith (Romans 5:1). The clear teaching of Scripture is that we are justified by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) and all may believe and be saved (Acts 13:38-39; 15:11; Romans 11:32; 1 Timothy 4:10). Further, if you hold that Jesus died to secure the salvation of just the elect then does this not create the dilemma for the Calvinist of what Calvin called “the horrible doctrine” of double predestination in such places as Romans 9:22? If not, why does God choose to save so few? It seems that it is clear that He does foreknow all things including our faith in Him (Romans 8:29) but He allows people to freely come to Him to be saved (conditioned upon personal faith; Romans 10:14-17). Did Jesus truly love then the rich young ruler (Mark 10:21) though He allowed him to freely reject Him (Mark 10:22)?
Is it possible that you are not part of the elect? If you turn away from following Jesus doesn’t this prove you, in the Calvinist sense, were never saved to begin with (1 John 2:19)? So how can you know that you have eternal life now apart from perseverance (John 8:51)? We stand secure in our faith in Jesus (2 Corinthians 1:24) and this gives us the assurance that we are saved. Sinning shows our open rebellion against God (Hebrews 10:19-39) and 1 John 2:3-6; 3:6-9 make it clear that we cannot go on persisting in sinning while still claiming to follow Christ. Romans 6 makes it equally clear that our obedience is to Christ alone as Lord and not sin. There are no promises given of assurance to open rebellious people. The promises of assurance are only given to disciples of Jesus (John 8:31-36; Romans 8:1). So thus the Calvinist is left without assurance of their salvation since it is possible that you reading this are not a true disciple but are deceived and really a false convert. Is it possible that you may turn away from following Him in the future. The Arminian, however, has assurance based on the work of Christ as we trust Him by faith (Hebrews 7:25). We stand secure in Christ (John 15:1-11).
Justin Edwards
November 26, 2012
Hi TSD, firstly, though we disagree on much here, I’d like to thank you for your rational and neutral tone. Please also know my response is intended to be neutral and respectful as I hope to have a meaningful discussion with you.
You have written much here that would be too much to respond to initially, though there are biblical answers to all of your points and questions. Before I answer your comment, and in hopes to stay on topic as much as possible, would you mind answering the question relevant to the article? Namely,
do you believe there are reconciled sinners in hell?
Thanks, looking forward to your reply.
The Seeking Disciple
November 26, 2012
Reconciliation is by grace through faith (2 Cor. 5:18-21). Jesus referred to Moses’ serpent from Numbers 21:8-9 in John 3:14-15. It is clear that all who looked to the pole could be saved and thus provision was made for all just as Jesus shows in John 3:14-15.
The question is is it the providing of atonement that saves, wholly apart from faith; or is it the trusting in it that appropriates its saving power toe the believing sinner? Millard Erickson is correct when he wrote, “Our inheriting eternal life involves two separate factors: an objective factor (Christ’s provision of salvation) and a subjective factor (our acceptance of that salvation).”
Thus Christ died for all but those in hell did not appropriate His gift (Romans 5:18).
I am heading out to eat with my family. I do appreciate you much brother and love your blog. Will try to get online later.
Justin Edwards
November 26, 2012
Thanks, TSD, but I don’t believe you answered my question. Are there reconciled sinners in hell if all sinners are reconciled by His death per Romans 5:10: “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son…”?
The Seeking Disciple
November 26, 2012
How are you reconciled to God? Simply because Christ died? The atonement does not save you until you appropriate faith in the atonement (Romans 5:1). The death of God’s Son was for all (1 John 2:2) so that all may, through faith, be saved in the Son (John 3:14-18). Atonement in and by itself, separate from faith, saves no soul.
Since reconciliation comes through personal faith in Jesus. This is clear in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21 where Christ’s saving work only benefits those who receive it (v.20). So no there are no reconciled sinners in hell though Scripture teaches that universal atonement is implied in references to the perishing (see 1 Corinthians 8:11 and Romans 14:15). See also 2 Peter 2:1.
Justin Edwards
November 26, 2012
Reconciliation is completed when one responds, by grace, with repentant faith. However, there are no sinners from whom sin was transferred to Christ on the cross, to whom Christ’s righteousness will not be transferred to them by grace. That is the very nature of substitutionary atonement and propitiation.
Your position allows for Christ to have reconciled sinners through His death who are left in some sort of intermediate state of incomplete reconciliation because they did not merit reconciliation through “faithing” in Christ. At least Universalism, as heretical as it is, is consistent. Universal atonement argued from the Arminian perspective is very inconsistent as the article indicates.
As the article article argues, not one sinner who has been reconciled by the death of Christ will not ultimately come to saving faith because all whom the Father has given to the Son will come to Him (John 6:37).
I will try to respond to your other comments tonight. Thanks for your patience.
Justin Edwards
November 27, 2012
Good morning, TSD, I answered some of your points, and not really in too much depth. The comment section isn’t really the place to argue all aspects of the doctrines of grace, but I do welcome you to check out the series and engage discussion one doctrine at a time: https://airocross.com/calvinism/
The elect are eternally elect, not eternally justified as justification occurs in a single moment in time (1 Corinthians 6:11).
I do not know why God chooses to save a relative few and that is not for us to know. But Scripture teaches that to be the case, so I believe it. The real question is why does God choose to save any at all?
Romans 8:29 says God foreknows people, not faith (though in His omniscience He knows who will have the faith that He will give them). God foreordained to have an intimate relationship with people. See this: https://airocross.com/2010/12/02/according-to-the-foreknowledge-of-god/
Yes, Jesus calls people to freely come, but they cannot come unless they are first made alive. Dead men can’t do anything but be dead. See https://airocross.com/2011/01/20/the-dead-will-hear-and-live/
The elect will not turn away from God as He is the author and finisher of our faith (Phil. 1:6; Heb. 12:2). I know I have eternal life based on the objective Word of God and the testimony of the Spirit through sanctification (1 John).
Do you believe you can lose your salvation? How do you know that you’ve lost it? What must you do to keep it? How do you know you’ve kept it? Do you hold on to God, or does He hold on to you? Is salvation for your sake, or God’s sake?
The Christian will not continue in sin because He has been born of God (1 John 3:1-11).
Linda
November 27, 2012
Amen, amen Justin! Scripture just brings such JOY and freedom when we know the truth and it so sanctifies us and purifies our hearts to soar and delight in Christ giving God all the glory and honor due his name
The Seeking Disciple
November 27, 2012
Cite one verse that says Christ died only for the elect.
Justin Edwards
November 27, 2012
John 10:11, 14-16 ESV
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Justin Edwards
November 27, 2012
One more, but there are dozens others at the 2 l inks I provided at the bottom of the article: Acts 20:28 ESV
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
The Seeking Disciple
November 27, 2012
But this does not say “elect” only. He laid down his life for the Church, for all, for the world, for Paul, etc. but where does it say “elect.”
Justin Edwards
November 27, 2012
Who are the sheep and who is the church, TSD?
The Seeking Disciple
November 27, 2012
The sheep, the church, are all who will come and be saved through faith (John 3:14-18). But does the Bible ever say Jesus died for the elect (in those words)? Does the Bible ever say the atonement is for the elect only? In those words?
I will be gone the rest of the day. I drive a truck and will be heading to Tennessee so I won’t be able to respond for about a day. Thanks for the friendly debate.
Justin Edwards
November 27, 2012
Does the Bible say that God is a trinity, or that He is omniscient, or omnipotent, or omnipresent – in those words?
The Seeking Disciple
November 28, 2012
I will take it you don’t have a verse. Look I know you can’t say that there are no verses that say Christ died for the elect since this would defeat your purpose so I understand that.
My point is that if I asked you if Christ died for the church you would say yes and point to Ephesians 5:25. If I asked you if Christ died for the sheep you would say yes and point to John 10:11. If I asked you if Christ died for Paul the Apostle you would say yes and point to Galatians 2:20. So If I ask you if Christ died for all you answer would be no. And why? You would say no despite passage such as John 1:29; 3:16; 4:42; Romans 11:32; 1 Timothy 2:4; 4:10; Hebrews 2:9; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14. You would point to those verses and deny what they say because your theology will not allow you to say what they say.
Justin Edwards
November 28, 2012
TSD, there does not need to be an explicit verse stating those specific words for it to be a truth of Scripture. I demonstrated that by asking you to show me where the Bible says that God is a trinity – it doesn’t, but Scripture shows Him to be a triune God.
You’ve also made a lot of assumptions. Had you read Part 3a and Part 3b addressing definite atonement, you would see that I used many of those verses to show that Christ died for a particular people, His elect chosen before the foundation of the world for His glory alone.
In order to support your position, you must pluck those verses out of context. If you are truly interested in understanding your errors and seeing these passages as they are intended by the author, here’s some considerations for you:
John 1:29, John 3:16, John 4:42, 1 John 4:14 can be easily shown that “world” does not mean every single person in the world, but rather the people in the world in general. In other words, all kinds of people from every tribe, nation, and tongue, not just Jews. Just go to John 17:9 that shows that “world” does not necessarily mean all individuals, for Jesus Himself said He does not pray for the world (meaning the non-elect), but for only those the Father had given Him:
It should also be said that if Christ was the Savior of the whole world (1 John 4:14), meaning every individual, He would be a very weak and inadequate savior who could not accomplish that which He intended to accomplish. But, of course, Christ is mighty to save, for His name is Jesus, and He came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).
Please watch this video explaining more:
Romans 11:32 you have plucked out of context, yet by doing so you must be consistent to say that all are saved because the verse says God would have mercy on all. Of course, that is not the case, as Paul is speaking to the elect of God, Jews and Gentiles alike.
1 Timothy 2:4 has also been plucked out of context. By reading verses 1-4, we see that Paul is speaking about all kinds of people:
So he is saying that God desires all kinds of people, whether poor or rich, servant or king, to come to repentance. We need to pray for all kinds of people so that all kinds would come to saving faith. This article will explain further: Understanding 1 Timothy 2:4
1 Timothy 4:10 is actually a very strong verse for particular redemption. It reads,
God is the savior of all people in a certain sense, meaning that by the work of Christ, He has stayed the execution of all and given them common grace. But He is especially the Savior of those who believe, who He purchased as a people for Himself with His own life. While Jesus may have died in some way for all people, He died in a special, effectual way for a particular people – His elect.
Hebrews 2:9 is plucked out of context. The “everyone” the author is speaking about are the brothers who are in Christ (Hebrews 3:1), sons who He has brought to glory (2:10). If Jesus tasted death for every single man, no single man would go to hell to experience the Second Death.
2 Peter 3:9 is a common verse taken out of context. It reads,
Notice Peter says “patient toward you” – who is the you? Well, in verse 3:1, Paul writes, “This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved.” Only the “beloved” are the elect of God who are greeted in Peter’s first letter in 1 Peter 1:1-3. We know that all individuals will not reach repentance (which in your view would mean God did not fulfill His will), because in verse 7 we find that “by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.” So, the proper understanding of verse 9 in context is,
Please watch this for further explanation:
1 John 2:2, another verse taken out of context. It reads,
Firstly, propitiation means to satisfy the wrath of God – that is what Jesus did on the cross when He satisfied God’s wrath against the ungodly. It does not make sense if God satisfied His wrath through Jesus and will also satisfy His wrath through sinners in hell. That would be double jeopardy and would make God unjust. So Christ satisfied “our sins”, John writes – so who are the “our”? Well, John is a Jew. Pointing back to John 10, we see Christ speak about laying His life down for His sheep, meaning the remnant of Israel, and He also has sheep who are not of His fold, meaning Gentiles:
Returning to 1 John 2:2, it is now easy to understand that John, a Jew, is explaining that Jesus did not only die for the remnant of Israel (Christ’s sheep), but also for the whole world (meaning sheep not of His fold – elect Gentiles from every tribe, nation, and tongue).
It’s a long response, but I hope you find it helpful and study these verses further so that you can truly rest in the grace of God.
The Seeking Disciple
November 28, 2012
A couple of points here. First, who is Jesus praying for specifically in John 17:9? The context is clear that He is praying for the apostles whom He had chosen (John 15:16). He is not speaking here of “the elect” as you view it but in context His own disciples whom He had chosen on earth.
Secondly, take just the gospel of John. The word “kosmos” occurs no fewer than 75 times and never once means “all kinds of people”. Try taking “all kinds of people” and substituting that phrase wherever kosmos is used and see if it makes sense. We must examine the context. Luke 2:1 uses “world” but a different Greek word oikoumene. We also see the hyperbole mentioned in John 12:19. The context must decide if world does mean world unless your theology is presupposed upon the text.
Lastly, when did you get saved or when does anyone get saved? Did you or anyone else get saved when Jesus died on the cross?
Justin Edwards
November 28, 2012
Regarding kosmos, in those cases it is speaking to mankind in general. That was my point.
In John 17, Jesus is not only praying for His disciples, but for everyone the Father has given Him:
I was saved when God regenerated me, which means He gave me a new heart so I could change my mind to understand my sin and need for Christ, thus turning to Him in faith. Jesus secured my salvation on the cross, which is what this article explains. Not a drop of His blood was wasted and will be applied to all of His sheep for whom He died.
The Seeking Disciple
November 28, 2012
Where you then saved before faith? When Jesus shed His blood were you saved then? When were you regenerated? When were you born again?
Justin Edwards
November 28, 2012
Faith is the means through which God saved me, and He regenerated me (caused me to be born again) so that I could put my faith in Him to save me. Note the order of this verse:
We are now getting off topic from the original post. Like I said earlier, you’re welcome to comment on the articles in the Calvinism series if you want to discuss the different doctrines.
I appreciate your tone throughout the discussion here, though I believe you have a very man-centered understanding of salvation.
The Seeking Disciple
November 28, 2012
By the way, I agree with Spurgeon on this:
In our own day certain preachers assure us that a man must be regenerated before we may bid him believe in Jesus Christ; some degree of a work of grace in the heart being, in their judgment, the only warrant to believe. This also is false. It takes away a gospel for sinners and offers us a gospel for saints. It is anything but a ministry of free grace. If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners.
Justin Edwards
November 28, 2012
Spurgeon, a 5-point Calvinist, is not saying what you think he is saying, and you have completely taken it out of context (again) to support your theology. Here is the whole sermon to show the reader that Spurgeon meant that the Gospel should be preached to all, not just those who seem penitent and obvious to us that the Holy Spirit may be working in them.
There is no gap between regeneration and justification – it all happens at once – the sinner is born again, repents, believes and is justified and sanctified in the same experience (Titus 2:5-7, John 1:12-13, 1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 Peter 1:3-5).
gracealone1
November 27, 2012
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you…” John 15:16
“…And as many as had been APPOINTED to eternal life believed”. Acts 13:48
Why is it that man must insist on having a part in the salvation that our Lord has provided? Is it not sufficient to know that one is saved by GRACE through FAITH (boths gifts from God) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES it is the GIFT of GOD. If this is not enough to save a man and he would insist on being an indisposable part of salvation, then he (you?) would have no need of grace. Have you no need of grace?
Darrel
The Seeking Disciple
November 27, 2012
Grace is still grace even if freely received.
Justin Edwards
November 27, 2012
Grace is not the gift, TSD, it is the means by which the gifts of faith and repentance are given.
The Seeking Disciple
November 28, 2012
Granted but to receive the offer of salvation by grace through faith does not mean that we earn salvation. To say that a person must have faith is not implying works. But we are getting off the point.
Justin Edwards
November 28, 2012
When we say that salvation is by grace alone, we do not mean to say salvation is apart from human responsibility, but that man’s responsible parts, namely repentance and faith, are also gifts of grace. Let he who boasts boast in the Lord of glory alone.
gracealone1
November 27, 2012
TSD: So just how much of the precious blood of Christ was spilled in vain? Half? 3/4? 90%? How about NONE? As you are attempting to remake the God of Creation, Salvation and Scripture into one that can be made to accomodate the lust of the flesh for the control of your own fate, you are also elevating your ability to conjure up a “faith” that you think will “save” you from the righteous wrath of the only Holy God and grant you an eternal audience before Him on your terms. How isaiah 14 of you! If it were left up to man to decide to “accept Jesus as their personal Savior” then no one would ever be saved (“there is NONE who seeks after God) and ALL of the precious blood of Christ would have been shed in vain, the God of Scripture would be seen as some inept, powerless, and irrevelant personage to be ignored. It is time to lay aside the idol of the “free-will” of mankind. If anyone is saved it is because they were chosen by the Father, NOT because they chose Him. When you get tired of supporting such an untenable and unbiblical assertion as you are presently doing, repent and seek forgiveness-He does forgive! Only the meek will inherit the earth, there will be no pride of man in the presence of the Holy Triune God. There is no humility in telling God that you chose Him.
There is a wonderful book by John Owen that totally dismantles all the arguments for this heretical view of God and His salvation for man called: “The Death of Death in the Death of Christ”. Only the Holy Spirit can make a man blinded by the lust for control of his own fate to see the truth of Scripture, especially in regard to the saving of his soul. May He open your eyes.
Darrel
Linda
November 27, 2012
Amen!!
gracealone1
November 28, 2012
Let’s consider the bottom line of this fantasy doctrine that so many, TSD included, would force upon the bride of Christ and the world in general:
By it’s own assertion and definition the pride of man plays a key role in the salvation of his soul. Perhaps a conversation in heaven might go like this: “I accepted Jesus as my personal savior the minute I heard what He was offering, who in their right mind would turn down a offer to live forever in such a wonderful place as this heaven is? We have streets of gold to walk on and a mansion to live in, have you seen what the Lord has built for me, it’s so big that I’ll never see it all!!!” Another would reply: “Not me, I had too many things I wanted to do on earth that He would not approve of, so I held out as long as I could and enjoyed my sins. But when my body gave out I figured that I’d better take Him up on the offer of salvation just in case I might need it. Wow, the Bible was right, there really is a heaven. I guess that means that there really is a hell, too. Man, am I glad a made the right call on that one!!” Then there is the one who who loved his religion with all of it’s do’s and don’t’s: “As for me I spent my entire life arguing with God, telling Him that He was wrong in so many ways, telling Him that He did not have the right to do as He pleased with His creation and the best thing He could do to make Himself appear righteous before His creatures was to bring all of us to heaven. Well, as you can see, I won that argument. I am here in His heaven for all eternity, because I made God admit that He was wrong and that we all really do deserve to be happy forever. I suppose that means that every one should be thanking me ’cause I had the courage to face God and tell Him what His rights really are. We deserve to be happy because He didn’t make us right to start with!”
Ridiculous, isn’t it? The pride of man running wild in heaven. Those who demand that the blood of Jesus was shed for all men, every where, for all time, don’t consider the implications that must be drawn from such a belief. namely, that the God who did this is inept, powerless, and incapable of overcoming sin and it’s final fruit, death. He would have to be unable to do anything except make an offer to someone who is dead in sins to see if the offer itself is enough to awaken him to life. He would tie His own hands by subjugating Himself to the unregenerate will of a helpless creature who has no interest in righteous living, but only in continuing in sin with the sin of cursing God and all He is being foremost in his mind. This same sinner would not approve of a God who really was sovereign over all His creation and creatures, nor of One who chose those He wished to be His eternal companions. This same sinner would demand acceptance by God to be on his terms, just like Cain did and would find himself an outcast, with no humility before the only Holy God. Genuine salvation, the kind spoken of in Scripture, the kind where it is God Who does the choosing and not a man, produces much fruit. Two examples would be gratitude and humility. There is no room for one to be able to boast about “his part” in the saving of his soul, only an overwhelming thankfulness that continually grows and a humility that makes one realize that he is saved ONLY because he was chosen to be saved by the God who offered up His own Son to take our place.
There are hundreds of verses that teach that it is God who does the choosing of the ones who will be saved and not man. You know them well enough but have chosen to ignore the clear teaching presented in the Bible and prefer instead to be captivated by your own pride and the demand that God provide for the salvation of all men. It’s only fair, right? Who are you to reply against God? Who are you to tell Him how things should be? Who are you to make demands upon the God who holds your soul in His hands? I hope that you will be given repentance in this matter. Repentance is a gift from God just like grace and faith and salvation itself.
Darrel