Denver Bronco’s quarterback Tim Tebow has been in the news a whole lot lately. Since I don’t follow the NFL very much anymore, the only thing I really know about him is what I pick up in various news stories, whether they are condemning Tebow for so actively and publicly sharing his faith, or giving him praise for it. There has been a story or two where I have given a fist pump of joy for Tebow’s courage, but mostly I have been hesitant to fully support him because I don’t really know much about him. This is nothing against Tebow, I just try to be careful in choosing “celebrity” Christians to endorse or promote.
This post is not about Tim Tebow’s salvation or to tear him down. In fact, I hope it will serve as an exhortation to him should he read this, and for you as the reader to examine whether the message you preach is a biblical one (Acts 17:11). From what I can tell, Tebow seems to have a deep and unapologetic love for Jesus and a heart to share Christ with the lost, no matter what that might cost him. It appears Tebow has indeed counted the cost, and is very much living by Matthew 5:10,
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
So, this post is not about Tebow’s heart, but it is about his message. What I would like to share is a message Tim Tebow preached to a group of prisoners at the Lake City Correctional Facility while still a quarterback at the University of Florida. Based on the content of the message, it seems it may be from around 2009-2010. What you will witness is the following:
- Tim inviting the audience to ask Jesus into their heart (not in the Bible)
- Decisional regeneration (not in the Bible)
- An altar call (not in the Bible)
- Tim leading inmates in a sinners prayer (not in the Bible)
- Proclaiming salvation over those who recited the prayer and a hearty “welcome to the family of God” (not in the Bible)
To say the least, this is very disappointing. What’s more, the message did not contain anything about the holiness of God, the depravity of sinners, the justice and wrath of God, nor was there a call to repentance. Granted, the video looks like it was edited to some extent so it’s possible these portions were cut out, however, the above bullet points are consistent with a message that lacks these crucial elements of a pure Gospel presentation.
I post this message as an exhortation in what not to do. There is nothing biblical whatsoever about any of Tim Tebow’s methodology in the above points. In fact, Tebow’s presentation epitomizes the watered-down, repentant-less gospel message so prevalent today. I do not say this to shame Tebow, but to point out our message must be conformed to the Word of God, not man-made traditions.
Perhaps Tim Tebow has matured in the last couple of years and is now preaching a biblical Gospel. I am certainly willing to acknowledge that, and I hope it is the case. But if Tebow is still preaching what you will witness in the video below, then Tim is not preaching a pure biblical Gospel and he is relying on man-centered methodology to “win converts”. Sadly, this methodology produces many false converts as realized in the modern American church.
So what are your thoughts about this? Do you have a link or video showing Tebow has indeed matured in the faith to preach an unadulterated Gospel? Please share in the comment section below.
Also, I will be sharing this link with Tim Tebow in hopes he would examine the message he is preaching. Below Tebow’s prison message, you will find a few links and videos related to the dangers of the modern message as well as resources proclaiming the pure Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
May we all be faithful to defend and declare this Gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe (Romans 1:16).
Free Book: God Has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life – The Myth of the Modern Message
It Will Cost You Everything (full sermon)
Michael Coughlin
December 9, 2011
I don’t think it was terrible although I agree with your points. I think there were several elements that were very good as well (even if not stated super-theologically).
I don’t like telling people that “no matter what” they will go to Heaven just because they said a prayer. I like to offer caution and exhort people to self-examine…but I also love ASSURANCE which is completely Biblical (and essential).
So I don’t disagree with welcoming someone to the family of God. I mean, how terrible is it that we are so hardened due to false conversion around us that we wouldn’t REJOICE at the idea that someone truly repented and trusted Christ? Think of Philip and the Ethoipian Eunuch and all the Acts 2 converts! These people were IMMEDIATELY added to the church role and baptized!
Hopefully, Tebow’s message is/has improved to be a more biblically sound gospel. The Holy Spirit is who we need to ask to help Timmy T. Maybe we’ll get to meet him at SBO? 🙂
I am a little sensitive about bashing poor gospel presentations. (Which you did not do, you quite skillfully pointed out the presentations misgivings without being rude)
I was saved by God through poor gospel presentations. I was saved without having repentance preached to me. I was saved because of (and despite) imperfect people (some possibly not even saved) who cared enough to share it however imperfect (and Arminian) their gospel was.
So I am proud of your humility and patience with TimmyT. I hope he reads your post and is encouraged and helped out by it.
Justin Edwards
December 9, 2011
Thanks so much for the comment, brother, and I agree with everything you said. Great point on our rejoicing when saints are added to the Kingdom. When the pure Gospel is preached and there is a calling to faith and repentance, it seems we can have more confidence to rejoice when sinners seemingly convert because we know what they heard was biblical and the proclamation was biblical. We can then exhort them to come to church, pray and read the Bible daily, and surround themselves with mature believers (even offering to disciple them).
Tim needs our prayer to be sure. He has so much potential to impact so many people with the Gospel.
And thank you for your encouraging feedback – it was a difficult post to write to be truthful without coming off as condemning Tebow.
I’d love to meet him at SBO too! For those interested, here’s a link to the Super Bowl Outreach in Indianapolis: http://superbowloutreach.org/
jlremy
December 9, 2011
it came off as condemning…
Justin Edwards
December 9, 2011
Hi jlremy, would you be so kind to point where or how?
ilovewhatido
December 9, 2011
Tim Tebow is a kid and is doing better then most kids these days. He never attended Seminary ( can be a good thing ). Lets not be critical of our brothers and sisters in Christ. he is not out selling HIMSELF he is selling Jesus-the best way he may know how.For all of us who are written in the Lambs book of life-we must caution ourselves not to VOICE everything w/out prayer. Our words could hinder a brother or sister who is new in the Lord from speaking up or out in fear they may do something WRONG in the eyes of their new family of believers. Im a strong Christian and a wife to an apologetic teacher/minister. I often hear more of what is wrong with Christian leaders and teachers for watering down the gospel; or worst….false teaching. Tim Tebow certainly has lots to learn…but he is CLAIMING his faith and he is professing it to a world who doesn’t want to hear it-the BEST he knows how. He is in an organization that would rather have him shut up. Lets pray for this young man that God will continue a good work in him.May we rally around our brothers and sisters and rebuke when GOD calls us to rebuke. Shalom
Justin Edwards
December 9, 2011
Hi, thanks for commenting. While I agree with you we should be praying for Tebow, to say we should not offer biblical and truthful constructive criticism is not, well, biblical. This post was not meant to discourage anyone, especially Tim Tebow. What we see in his prison message is an unbiblical methodology and a message lacking in the full Gospel proclamation. To point this out is not to condemn Tebow, but rather exhort him to examine whether his message conforms to Scripture. This is what Christians are to do for each other.
When one of us is in error, we have the responsibility to point that out in love and humility. We are to stir one another to be zealous for good works, and use the whole counsel of God to build each other up in the faith. All of us are on a continuous learning curve, and we need each other to counsel each other by the Word of God, all for His glory, honor, and praise.
jeff
December 10, 2011
I would disagree with the statement ” when one is error, we have the responsibility to point this out…”. I can and do find errors, or points of disagreement in your writings continually, but it would wear me out to be on such a mission. If you think you are without error you just proved my point. If you believe you are in error then you just proved my point. I am living in the fullness God has given me and maturity changes me continually. Much Love in His Name
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Jeff, if you find me to be in error and you do not confront me, then you are doing me a great disservice – especially in matters concerning the Gospel.
Steve Bauer
December 9, 2011
I agree with every point you have made. I am not a fan of the repentless Gospel that is preached in churches and out in the world today. Nor do I like the “Look at me – my Christian Light is on…don’t you want to ask me why I look like a Christian?” approach that the American church is fond of. However, I would like to just point out that God is much bigger than our attempt to present the Gospel – therefore, let’s not discount the possibility that an inmate or two in that video might have been saved, despite Tim’s best efforts. To put it another way, if you are schooled in CPR, your CPR, when needed, had better be up to par. But for the lay person to do CPR, who may have only seen it done on TV – well, 20 years as a paramedic tells me that bad CPR is better than none. You do the best with the tools at hand. And if God can use a “tool” like me, He can use anyone!
Let’s pray that Mr. Tebow will grow into a deeper understanding of God, His Character, His Nature and His Word. Fortunately for Tim (and us), the Holy Ghost is enough…
God Bless!
Justin Edwards
December 9, 2011
“let’s not discount the possibility that an inmate or two in that video might have been saved, despite Tim’s best efforts.”
I totally agree, Steve – amen!
Michael Coughlin
December 9, 2011
Amen, Steve.
Carol
December 9, 2011
Justin, good post. I think it’s ironic that Tebow has Eph. 2:8-9 painted on his face in that first pic you posted. He knows the Scripture, but he doesn’t seem to really grasp the depth of it. However, he is young and hopefully he will come to know the truth of God’s sovereignty. The thing is, almost all of “Christianity” believes as Tebow does, so it’s difficult to get them to see that their watered-down gospel is wrong. It will take men like you to teach him differently. Mature Christians must exhort the immature. It’s not a personal attack on Tebow; in fact, we want to exhort and teach because we love him as a brother and want to see him come to maturity.
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Amen, sister, you summed it up very well and thank you for the exhortation.
Donaldo
December 9, 2011
Et tu, Brute’. You 5-point Calvinism is showing.
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Hardly, Donaldo. But thanks for the compliment in your second remark – glory to Christ! 😉
Mitch
December 9, 2011
Amen Brother our Salvation is secured through Jesus Christ’s Work and not “decisional degeneration”.
God Bless you Bro
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Amen, brother!
Ernst Toerien
December 10, 2011
Great that He is sharing the gospel. Yes, unluckily not theologically correct. But most churches I have visited, or missionaries on the field I have talked with use this way of evangilizing. See it looks better on your resume – you can have 1000’s of converts. I have been in a church where they had 3000 converts in 2 years, but only 40 church members, all of which came from another church. Being a missionary myself it always creates problems for me, because through my ministry only a few people (children) where brought by the Father into His kingdom through preaching of His Word. So people think I am a bad missionary – not enough converts. Well I would rather stuck to the truth than go for the numbers.
So unluckily he is not the only one bringing this watered down human centered gospel to the world.
Beginning and End
December 10, 2011
“I have been in a church where they had 3000 converts in 2 years, but only 40 church members, all of which came from another church. ”
Are you saying those 3,000 people are not saved? What is your Biblical basis for this?
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
The fact there are only 40 members in the church testifies to a major issue for this church and those who hear its message. Read John 15:16 and Colossians 1:6.
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Amen, Ernst!
Beginning and End
December 10, 2011
Wow. I have to say I am very saddened by this bashing of Tim Tebow for sharing the Gospel. I respect and appreciate that you give Tebow props for the persecution he is experiencing.
So let’s look at all your criticisms of a brother in the faith who is actually in the real world sharing the Gospel. And let’s see if what YOU say is actually “in the Bible”. I will number your points to make it easier.
1. Tim inviting the audience to ask Jesus into their heart (not in the Bible)”
— “20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. ” (Revelation 3). Is it unbiblical to preach that you should let Jesus into your heart? This verses seems to be saying and imploring to do just that. If you can quote Jesus and say He is “THE Way, The Truth..” why can we not use the metaphors about the heart which Jesus discussed Himself?
2. Decisional regeneration (not in the Bible)
–“34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! ” (Luke 14)
Study “would not.” The greek word “thelo” means to have “will of mind; determine” as in making a decision. Here Jesus is clearly rebuking those in Jerusalem for their DECISION. They could have had eternal life, but DECIDED to reject it.
3. An altar call (not in the Bible)
—” 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.” (Acts 2)
Note what it took to be saved, baptized and a member of the church: “gladly receiving” the Gospel. That was it. Now while this was not a call to the altar, it is literally showing that at the end of a sermon, those who believed were not only counted as Christians but were called up to be baptized.
4. Tim leading inmates in a sinners prayer (not in the Bible)
— “1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples” (Luke 11)
There is no sin in teaching those who do not know the faith how to pray. It’s part of discipleship. Especially when you can teach someone to pray a confession of faith to salvation.
5. Proclaiming salvation over those who recited the prayer and a hearty “welcome to the family of God” (not in the Bible)
“36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (acts 8)
Notice what it took for an official Apostle to declare that the eunuch, who he had just met, was a Christian: a profession of faith. He did not interview, conduct background check, request a resume or put him through a 5 point Calvinism test (as it’s quite obvious you’re a Calvinist). The man stated he believed and that was that. Case closed. FInito.
This is why we need the whole counsel of God. Did Tebow deliver an A+ sermon jam packed with Biblical references? No. But here, in just the first 3 minutes (of an obviously edited video) is what he did preach:
1. No one is perfect. We are all sinners
2. There was one perfect one, Jesus Christ, who did not sin.
3. Jesus Christ died for our sins.
4. He was raised from the dead 3 days later.
5. Those who believe in Him will receive eternal life.
” 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15)
This is what Tebow preached. Calvinists are so stuck in their theological ivory tower, they do not take the time to look at the real world application of the Gospel in the Bible. Philip said “IF THOU BELIEVEST IN THINE HEART, thou mayest” that was it. You and your doctrine are being a stumblingblock by your tradition.
The other thing that stuns me in your condescension and criticism is that Tebow is in a prison! Have you ever been in a prison? Have you ever preached to inmates? Having PERSONALLY preached to ex-cons, felons and drug addicts all in the same room on many occasions, I can assure you it is a very scary and intimidating experience. It’s not a “Deeper Conference”. People are rolling their eyes, cursing, fighting and being forcibly removed all while you preach. Yet, you do not even give credit to a 21 year old (at the time) for going into this setting and preaching “Christ crucified” (which again, is what the Bible tells us to preach in REAL LIFE). Going to a setting like that and discussing the doctrine of election and the other scriptural perversions that try to promote that God is only here for “some of you” and the rest are “out of luck from birth” because of “God’s sovereignty” would not only bore them to tears, it would confuse them about The Lord.
I don’t believe in a watered down Gospel. I am not an ecumenicist, I do not follow Rick Warren (who Calvinists like John Piper are completely yolked with). I believe in preaching sin and repentance. But to knock someone just for inviting others to believe and prayed over is ridiculous. To bash a young Christian for mentioning “decisional regeneration” is sowing discord and going against REAL LIFE situations in the Bible as detailed by Jesus The Lord Himself. Instead of making the Gospel of none effect, show some love and encourage those who are doing REAL WORLD gospel preaching and not just debating God’s sovereignty over and over and over again among themselves.
Please know I say this in love. I love my Christian brothers and sisters but I am dismayed and saddened that you would bash someone like Tebow who has taken such a strong stand for the Christian faith in the face of unmeritied and ridiculous criticism. As he stated from the onset, he is not perfect, but he is not unbiblical either. His presentation of the Gospel was not “poor.” He preached what was preached in the Bible. I know the Calvinist reaction to a post like this will be to post 30 verses from Romans 3, 9 and other books on election, being “foreordained” , etc.. but I would challenge you instead to look at the Gospel being preached in the Bible, to REAL people, and show me where Tebow erred so badly that it warranted this article. God bless you abundantly with all peace, love and Grace.
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Thanks for your patience in getting to you. As with lynnylou, there are fundamental disagreements of theology between us, so I don’t expect us to agree on much with regard to this article. A few remarks:
Please show me where I “bashed” Tim Tebow.
1. Revelation 3:20 is talking about the church, not our hearts. Here’s a great article on this from Todd Friel: http://billsbible.blogspot.com/2009/04/ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your.html You might also read my response to lynnylou (point 1).
2. Please see response 2 to lynnylou.
3. Please see response 3 to lynnylou.
4. We can’t teach the unregenerate how to pray, but we can give unregenerate false assurance of salvation by leading them in a prayer to repeat words and declare salvation over them. I’ve said lots of “sinners prayers”, and I was not regenerate. Again, there is no “sinners prayer” in Scripture – we are commanded to repent and believe.
5. I would not take issue with baptism after profession if the unadulterated Gospel was preached and men and women responded in repentant faith. That did not happen in Tebow’s presentation.
I have no idea what you’re talking about with regards to condescending to Tebow or the prisoners. Where did you get that? My best friend spent 3 years in jail and prison, in fact, he was born again the first week incarcerated.
If you believe I have “knocked” Tim Tebow, then you have a very poor understanding of Christian accountability and our responsibility to one another – for our sanctification. Thank you for inspiring my next article, which will be on that very topic, Lord willing.
It would behoove you to go through the MANY resources I pointed to in the article. Perhaps you will learn in more detail the issues of concern (that is, if you are open to learning and being conformed to the truth).
As to “real world Gospel preaching”, by God’s grace we are honored to do just that: http://thespeaktruthproject.com/
Grace and peace.
lyn
December 10, 2011
I wonder…is he sharing the true Gospel, or is he giving a gospel of works, which is no gospel at all. In the latest edition of Heartcry magazine {volume # 69} which I receive by mail, Paul Washer writes an article on what the true Gospel is and demands, it is biblical and is nothing like Tebow’s gospel. We are not called to be successful and have sinners come in droves, we are called to be faithful. Let’s not forget the power of salvation is in the Father, Son, and Spirit, it is NOT in the way we present the Gospel or try to manipulate folks.
Here is a sample of Paul Washer’s article…
“Paul did not have “a” Gospel that was peculiar to him. His was not a ‘Pauline’ Gospel as opposed to a ‘Petrine’ or ‘Johannine’ Gospel. Though something of the personalities of these apostles is evident in their presentation, the Gospel they shared was the same. They would know nothing of the frequent language of our day that speaks of different variations, versions, and flavors of the Gospel as though there could be more than one. It is clear from Scripture that there was an unbroken continuum between what Jesus did and communicated to His followers and what Paul believed and preached.
In the Gospel of Jesus, genuine conversion is always accompanied by sincere and costly discipleship. Jesus frequently culled the large crowds that followed Him by making radical demands upon them: “if anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple”. He even warned His own disciples, “if anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me…” In the Gospel of Paul, the same radical demands of discipleship are found.
In the Gospel of Jesus, men are taught that a mere profession of faith alone is no sound evidence of salvation. Jesus warned that not everyone who says to Him, “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those whose lives are marked by obedience to the will of God.
Finally, the Gospel of Jesus abounds with warnings about future judgment and the terrors of hell. The matter was so crucial to Jesus that He gave the following warning even to those whom He considered to be His friends: “I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!”
There is but one Gospel, which stands above the editor and the censor, and which must not be changed, adapted, or repackaged. Any attempt to do so, regardless of the reason or motivation, will result in a different Gospel, which is NO Gospel at all!’ – Paul David Washer
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Amen, Lyn! Thanks so much for sharing brother Paul’s admonishment!
Eugene Pepe
December 10, 2011
First of all, who are we to even judge what he is doing. God looks at the heart, and as far as I can tell – too many people are critical of what others are doing. What does the Bible say about Gossip and Slander. In Genesis we are given 1 law, which we all know couldn’t be followed. The Old Testament gives us 613 laws, and to the best of what I know, no one could follow all of them. (Otherwise they would be perfect) Then we have Jesus, no matter what anyone else says, Jesus is the one who saves, we are only too be messengers. How dare we say that because someone says a prayer thats not in the Bible, that the person is not saved. That is the beginning for many people, and also the end for many. As far as the Church goes, we all know that many people – including Pastors hide behind the Gospel as a means to do whatever they want.
Instead of judging, we should be praying and reaching out ourselves bringing the Gospel to others – not just by reading, preaching, but by living it out.
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Thanks for the comment, Eugene. To your first point, we are accountable to one another to sharpen, correct, rebuke, encourage, exhort, and admonish one another. You seem to not understand our duty to defend sound doctrine and build one another up in the faith. We are expected to be open to correction, and willing to confront our brothers when they are in error, in love and humility.
Secondly, no doubt Tebow was sincere in his message to the inmates and the methods he used to “win converts”. But he was sincerely wrong in his methodology. Your charges of gossip and slander are, therefore, baseless. If we are to be faithful ambassadors of Christ, then our message must be faithful to Scripture.
Moreover, nowhere in my article did I say no one who said the sinners prayer was not saved. The fact is, one is born again in spite of any so-called sinners prayer they recite. Salvation is of the Lord, and men and women are simply called to repent and trust Christ. Prayer is fine, but if one is broken over their sins and understands their need for salvation, with the Holy Spirit working in that person, then they don’t need anyone to tell them how to ask forgiveness, much less tell them the words to repeat.
Could you please clarify your comment, “As far as the Church goes, we all know that many people – including Pastors hide behind the Gospel as a means to do whatever they want.”? This seems to show you don’t understand what the Gospel is and its implications. I’m not questioning your salvation, but your understanding of the theology behind it.
Lastly, we are to judge those inside the church, not outside the church. We are responsible to one another, period. Yet, this does not mean we do not also go out and share the Gospel – that was a false dichotomy you presented. See our evangelism ministry for case in point: http://thespeaktruthproject.com
pam
December 11, 2011
As Christians, we are not authorized to “offer” Christ. We are told to preach the Gospel message of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus and then the Holy Spirit works. Once a person is born of the Spirit, he repents. A natural man cannot truly repent. He has no desire to. He is dead in his sins and transgressions and until the Spirit quickens and makes alive, he remains dead.
So we do not need to makes offers based in emotionalism but to present the facts of the Word of God. The elect will respond and evidence will follow. The Bible does not support Arminianism. Man does not choose God. The Bible states that. Man only chooses God after the Spirit regenerates and then God gives the faith to believe.
Hope this helps.
pam
Justin Edwards
December 11, 2011
Amen, Pam – Soli Deo Gloria!
lynnylou
December 11, 2011
1. The concept of asking Jesus into the heart:
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts. Proverbs 21:2
For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3:14-19 NKJV (emphasis mine)
Hearts are important to God. The Bible tells us that Christ dwells in our hearts so why would it be wrong to ask Jesus Christ into our hearts at conversion?
2. The concept of making a decision for Jesus Christ:
If we don’t make a decision for Christ then there is no point to Christ’s death on the Cross. If our redemption requires no response from us then God would only need to gather up those He decided to save and the Cross would be dispensed with. Adam and Eve made a decision to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If you don’t say they made a decision then you’re saying the devil did it for them so then there’d be no sinning on their part that needs addressing! Likewise, a decision to accept Christ’s gift of eternal life through His death on the Cross for the sins of all humanity (substitutionary atonement) is necessary in order to be transferred from the kingdom of death (through original sin) into the Kingdom of Light in Christ.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV. Salvation is for all people but not all choose Christ.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:1-2 NKJV (emphasis mine). God had foreknowledge of what? He knew from the beginning what we would choose – life in Christ or death without Him. And if you think choosing the Lord is unbiblical look at – I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; Deuteronomy 30:19.
3. The altar call and sinner’s prayer not biblical? Well the altar call is churchy I’ll give you that, but God made an ass speak to Balaam so lighten up and accept that God will use anything. And as for the sinner’s prayer – guidance is good and the prayer Tim used sounded good to me and did include asking forgiveness for sins which means repentance was covered. Give this brave man Tim a break. Jesus said as much to the disciples when they began picking on some guys not of their party – Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.” But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. Mark 9:38-39 NKJV.
4. Is Tim proclaiming salvation over the guys who prayed the sinner’s prayer? Nah, I think he’s acting in faith as he should and thereby welcoming the new converts into God’s Kingdom, cos guess what folks – we’re back to our 1st scripture. I’ll let you reread it!!!!
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Hi Lynny,
Apologies for the delay in approving and responding to your comment. We have some fundamental differences in theology, so I don’t expect for us to agree on much with regards to this post. I’ll briefly respond to each of your points:
1. Although you provided a couple of Scriptures about Jesus coming into our hearts at conversion, they don’t support the argument. You see, our hearts before conversion are “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9). There is nothing good in us, most especially our heart. So to ask Jesus to come into your heart is to ask Him to come into a filthy, sinful, wicked, residence. No, God must give us a new heart (Deuteronomy 30:6, for instance), then we are able to repent and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of our sin. We don’t “accept Jesus”, He must accept us.
2. There is too much to respond to in this point, so I will just refer you to my series on the doctrines of grace: https://airocross.com/2011/10/10/10-reasons-man-needs-a-sovereign-savior/ I also encourage you to listen to the first video on decisional regeneration by Paul Washer, or here it is again for your convenience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCbYrdxNUwU&feature=player_embedded
3. If you are truly sorry for cheating on your husband (for example), do you need to be given the words to seek his forgiveness? Secondly, asking forgiveness is not the same as repentance. Here’s some articles on this: https://airocross.com/category/doctrine/repentance/ For more on altar calls, you might check these out if you truly desire to know what the dangers are (and the theology behind it): Should We Use Altar-Calls in Our Evangelism? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5OAzojekX0 The Invitation System: http://www.monergismbooks.com/mobile.php?productid=16455&xid=eb6ee316def848c525f0fa5abe39cd62 and Dangers of the Invitation System: http://www.ccwtoday.org/resource_view.asp?resource_id=36 And Altar-Calls Salvation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_f1n8Bb4o4
4. I recommend you read John MacAuthor’s “After I lead people to Christ, should I offer them immediate assurance?” http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA075
Jason
December 11, 2011
First, this is not to everyone but to those that will take a rebuke and not harden his neck. those that so often use the Judge not lest ye be Judged are taking the verse out of context, and ye are spiritualy and bibly ignorant. you need to read and study your bible. 2 Tim 2:15,
There are many false Prophets and teachers in the world especially today becouse we are in the last days. Jesus said many will say Lord Lord, Matt 7:20-27. Christians are to Judge every thing and every person By the Word if they dont match up then they are a false prophet. or just ignorant. If there Ignorant you teach them with patients if they are a false prophet you rebuke them sharply like Jesus did. A Christian Judgeth all things
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man
Secondly He plays football on Sunday, and football is americas God, he does not seem to be bothered by playing a game on a day that is supposed to be set a side for worship. A true born again christian would tell there boss, or coach or whatever that they will not play on Sunday but attend church.
Thirdly- He would be rebuking his followers to get in church rather than not attending a ball game. If they walk contrary to the word of God you are to have no fellowship with them
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Jason
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Jason, I agree with the first part of your comment for the most part, but I stop short of agreeing with you on the second portion as you have crossed the line into judging Tim’s heart – seemingly saying you do not believe he is born again because he plays football on Sunday.
pam
December 12, 2011
Oh, my gosh, Justin. This is off topic but I just saw in your resource list, Jim McClarty’s website. He is the best Bible teacher I have ever listened to! I want to belong to the Church at Smyrna but unfortunately I don’t live in Tennessee. Thank the Lord for one of the really good things about the internet.
pam
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
I too am very fond of Jim McClarty’s ministry. He’s greatly blessed me on a number of topics.
Mike Broaddus
December 12, 2011
Tim Tebow like each of Us is a Pilgrim on a Journey if he lives to be 100 years old he will still be a Pilgrim ,a Pilgrim that will still be growing,Our Minds are not Gods nor are His Plans for those who Love and Join the Pilgrimage.Discerning is a Must and has been since Jesus was sent By the Father even more critical this present day.Tim Tebow is a Sinner ,as You are Justin as I’am as well as every one of use are.The only difference for Us is the fact we know what to do when the battle overwhelms us…and we lose .Tim Tebow as I do and each one of use do allow God to use us within Our journey and we will make Mistakes in doing so..Your article reeks with a Judgemental attitude and You try to qualify it in the worst way .with your understanding Of Scripture … Your mind is Not Tim Tebow’s or anyone elses for that Matter..God uses each of us in His way….from the time we are Babes till the day we Go Home to Him…Shame on You for Judging someone who is trying His best in probably the Most High Profile platform to Witness for Our precious Lord Jesus….May The Holy Spirit Give you every Word you Share Tim Tebow…
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Mike, that sounds nice and all, but you’ll need to support your argument with Scripture. As for me, my aim is to “preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching” (2 Timothy 4:2)
and
“to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,d to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love (Ephesians 4:12-16)”
because
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of Godb may be competent, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Now, please show me where there was a judgmental attitude? And please show me from Scripture where we are not accountable to one another and should not confront one another when we are in error, especially in matters pertaining to the Gospel.
Mike Broaddus
December 12, 2011
First of All Its No argument I have stated .Its just the fact that God meets us at a point where you are in Your Relationship with Him ,Granted Gods Word is Every True Christians Authority for Living.But Your making the Judgement on Tim Tebow ,,A Christian Walk is a Journey and Most everyone is at a different point much as their Calling and Ministry Might, which all falls Dependent on Gods will….Is a Babe in Christ Going to be ready for Your Judgement about Their Witnessing as a new Christian? I think Not…”Why critique a man until you walked a mile in his shoes.” Simply put, this means to put yourself in someone’s situation before judging or criticizing them.and your article certainly comes across that way…Tebow has one of the absolute greatest opportunties to Witness to those who’s God Is Football,May Jesus Be seen in His involvement,because thats who put Him there…
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Mike, do you know anything about exhorting, admonishing, encouraging, teaching, and correction? It seems all you are basing your comments on are your emotions and philosophical one-liners and not Scripture. I have no problem with your opposition, but please oppose me with Scripture to support your argument.
Mike Broaddus
December 12, 2011
Yes indeed I do, Oh How I do,,You even exude your attitude of Judging In asking me, someone you do not have a Inkling of who I ‘am and where My Life as a Christian has taken me If “I” know anything about exhortation,admonishing,encouraging,teaching and correction.,That is Not of issue though ,The issue is about a Man who because of His Words about His Faith in the public eye that do not seem to measure Up to “Your” understanding of what Scripture means for Him…As far as Writng the countless Scriptures That through My 40+ plus years of Scriptures I’ve studied to back My Words It would be as You say a “ARGUMENT” I can Plainly see that in You, I will not Argue about Scripture as you want to do, I will simply Proclaim those Words tempered with the Love Of Jesus Christ…as taught in the Bible…
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Mike, yes, I judged your words because they have given indication that you do not understand Christian discipleship, discipline, or sanctification. I stand by this judgment as your words are the only thing I have to go by and they do not line up with Scripture regarding Christian admonishment and exhortation. I will address this in another article in the coming days, Lord willing. Grace and peace to you.
Mike Broaddus
December 12, 2011
You do That,I’m sure it will be just as pathetic as the rest of your Judgemental Comments….
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Thanks, Mike – and thanks for not judging me…ahem… =/
Mike Broaddus
December 12, 2011
Oh I’m not Judging You Justin,,just the Pharisee in You,I see you wacked a Few of my Responses ..LOL I Figured that would Happen…
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Thanks, Mike, and I haven’t attacked Tebow, just his message and methodology. Your comments haven’t been touched, so I don’t know what you mean. Take care.
Tracey
December 13, 2011
After 40+ years of studying the Scriptures, you say,…I guess you chose the whip, Mike.
1 Cor 4:21.
lyn
December 12, 2011
Hello Lynny,
I want to address your belief that we must invite Jesus into our hearts, and my response will be strictly using God’s word and the meanings of those words from the original language…
First of all, as Justin has already stated, I would like to present Jeremiah 17:9, ‘”The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? ”
‘Heart’ is from the Hebrew word leb and means “inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory, as seat of emotions and passions”. Everyone has a heart that is deceitful, or filled with error, trickery. Our hearts are also desperately sick, which in the Hebrew is ‘anash and means ‘incurable, desperately wicked’. So, according to the prophet Jeremiah, we have an incurable, wicked, sickness that lies in all of us, we have bad minds, hearts, thoughts, emotions, understandings. The word ‘deceitful’ is key in this passage, a deceitful mind is one that plays tricks on you, does that sound like a mind that can be trusted to make decisions apart from Divine intervention?
Let’s go to John 6:44, ‘”No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.” We simply cannot, according to God’s own word, come to Christ unless God the Father first draws us. This word draw is from the Greek word helkō which means ‘to draw by inward power’, it is said to be akin to the Greek word haireō which means ‘to take for oneself, to prefer, choose’. I am not saying we do not come to Christ, what the Bible teaches is that we cannot come unless He first draws us. No one seeks after Him {Romans 3:11} apart from His supernatural power and grace.
The biggest thing that scares me about the popular decisional, invite Jesus into your heart belief is that it robs God of glory, from Isaiah 42:8, ‘”I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.” When we claim to have made a decision, or invited Jesus into our hearts, we are stealing God’s thunder.
The Bible teaches it is utterly impossible for us to make decisions because we are dead in sin; Ephesians 2:1-5, ‘And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)’. He makes us alive; dead men cannot make decisions concerning spiritual matters, to God be the glory.
I once thought I had invited Jesus into my heart, but a deeper study of His word proved me wrong, and I am glad. How dare I try and take credit for something utterly impossible for me to do!
This piece from Charles Spurgeon was a wonderful blessing, I do hope you’ll take the time to read it through…http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0182.htm
lyn
December 12, 2011
Mike Broaddus,
Please understand this, TIm Tebow is not presenting a biblical Gospel, there are no verses that beckon us to make a decision for Christ, or invite Him into our hearts, are repeat a magical prayer. The Gospel is a call to repent and believe in the finished work of Christ; how are we saved? “By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man boast’. This verse says it all, when we claim decisional salvation, or invitational salvation, are we not boasting? Salvation is all of the Lord, given as a gift by His grace, all because of what Christ has done. Even faith is God’s gift, we are unable to have faith unless He gifts us with it..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3dodm97SY4
As for John 3:16, check this out…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRss_v78A
072591
December 13, 2011
lyn:
“… [W]hen we claim decisional salvation, or invitational salvation, are we not boasting?”
ABSOLUTELY we are NOT boasting! If you are drowning and someone throws you a life preserver and you grab hold of it, did you save yourself? Would you tell people about how you saved yourself?
For my next point, let’s assume you are a Christian and the 5 points of Calvinism are true. This means that you, at some point, were not a Christian and you, again at some point, made the choice to repent. (Whether or not you really could have refused to repent is largely irrelevant here; you didn’t.)
Do you believe it is a requirement to believe in predestination in order to be saved? Your post seems to imply that you do, but I am not one to make public accusations then not let people answer to them; such people are vile reprobates. If you do, then how is it different from hyper-Calvinism which teaches that people should NOT have the Gospel shared with them unless you believe they are destined for heaven?
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
Dead men can’t grab hold of anything, 072591. They must be made alive before they can respond to the Gospel.
I did not choose to repent from my own enslaved will. It was impossible for me to do so. God made me alive (Ephesians 2:5), gave me ears to hear the Good News (John 5:25), eyes to see the glory of the Gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:4-6), and faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) and repentance (2 Timothy 2:25) to love Christ. God freed my will from its bondage to sin. Previously, I could only do that which my will would allow me – sin. Now that my will had been freed, I could do that which my freed will would allow me – to choose Christ. Romans 6 is a great study on this.
To answer your question whether it is a requirement to believe in predestination to be saved – no, of course not. One only must believe in the Gospel by repentant faith to be saved, of which this repentant, saving faith is absolutely a gift from God.
Emcee
December 12, 2011
Wow! Justin, you may not have intended for this post to become such, but it has surely turned into a “Tim Tebow Bash.” I’m not here to become a part of the argument for either side, so enough said.
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Hey brother, thanks for the notice. Could you point out where there has been any Tim Tebow bashing? I do believe Jason crossed the line with his comment but I don’t recall seeing any other “bashing”?
ER
December 12, 2011
Some “gospel” presentations & altar calls are not biblical, but this isn’t one of them. Tebow did mention that Christ died for sinners, but given that these guys were *prisoners,* a more explicit emphasis on the bad news, much less a formulaic Ray Comfort style 10 commandment test was not needed. These guys were encouraged to make a *public* profession, a very biblical thing, in contrast to the heads bowed & eyes *closed* ! ….it was a great presentation; for so many reasons I am grieved by this blog post & comment thread.
Luke 7:36-50
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Thanks for the comment, ER. Could you please point out why you are grieved by the blog post? Have you looked into any of the additional resources I provided?
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
One other thing I will point out. Again, this is not to bash Tebow, but to examine whether what he said is true. At the end of the video, Tebow said the way we know we have assurance of salvation is to remember the prayer we prayed to ask Jesus into our heart. That is so wrong. Our assurance does not come from a prayer we prayed, but from a life that exhibits fruit, the testimony of the Spirit to our spirit, and by examining ourselves in the Word of God. This is the only subjective and objective evidences that Scripture gives us for the assurance of our salvation – not decisions and prayers once prayed. I direct you to this series from Paul Washer entitled, Biblical Assurance of Salvation: https://airocross.com/2010/04/01/biblical-assurance-of-salvation-part-1/
072591
December 13, 2011
In general, that is true, but any real converts in the video would have been followers of Christ for maybe five minutes. There really isn’t going to be any fruit in that short amount of time, so at that point the question to be examined is: “What happened today that didn’t happen before that made things different?” Jesus gave assurance to the repentant thief on the Cross, even though he showed no fruit – because his conversion was such a short time before his death.
In time (and given the nature of prison, probably a very short time) fruit will grow, and you can point to that as proof of assurance. I would be curious to know about where any of these converts are now.
I didn’t watch the video; I usually don’t watch videos on the Internet. Was Tebow making a general statement about salvation, or was he addressing these particular people who had made professions that they came to Christ a couple minutes ago? That makes all the difference in whether or not he was right or wrong.
Justin Edwards
December 13, 2011
Thanks for the comment. Tim led them in a repeat after me sinners prayer then welcomed them to the family of God. He then told them Jesus will never they leave them no matter what, because they just asked Him to come in. It’s in the last minute or so if you want to watch it.
Mark
December 12, 2011
Justin, very interesting article. A friend on twitter challenged me about Tebow’s evangelistic methods after I sent out an approving tweet. So, I plan to write what will probably be a similar article.
I am surprised at the lack of careful thinking by some of the commenters who disagree with this post. I can’t imagine what they would have called Paul for publicly rebuking Peter, for example. I will consider this when I write my post.
Anyway..thanks for this.
Justin Edwards
December 12, 2011
Thanks, Mark, and youre very welcome. I’m very eager to read your post, and it may be something I link too if I get a chance to write my follow-up article this week. It seems they would also take issue with Aquila and Priscilla addressing Apollos.
Lynda O
December 13, 2011
Interesting observations–and I haven’t followed anything about Tim Tebow either. I agree that overall those are not biblical methods of evangelism and not the ideal, and yet as some Calvinist preachers have pointed out, many current Calvinists were initially saved by such methods, before coming to greater understanding.
The first point you mentioned, about “ask Jesus into your heart” used to really bother me, but I have come across that same language in the sermons of great Calvinist preachers of old. Spurgeon, for instance, delivered a few sermons in which he begged and implored his audience, by every human means possible, to come to Christ–a great contrast with the hyper-Calvinism often associated with those who hold to the doctrines of grace. Perhaps the overall usage of the term “ask Jesus into your heart” did not then carry the same negative connotations as today, but the phrase itself has been used by Calvinists.
At any rate, I pray that Tim Tebow will come to greater maturity including in his biblical understanding and approach to evangelism.
Justin Edwards
December 13, 2011
Thanks for commenting, Lynda. I agree with you and in fact do so myself when preaching the Gospel – calling men and women to come. Matthew 11:28-30 is one of my favorite verses in fact. This, however, is different than working up decisions for Christ. Calling sinners to come is akin to Jesus telling them to follow Him (Luke 9:23). In any case, no doubt some are saved after “inviting Jesus into their heart”, but it is tragic when that alone is emphasized to be the assurance of one’s salvation.
Jim Kahler
December 13, 2011
This being my first time here I very much enjoyed the give and take. I have spent many years around the people that were saved by that easy gospel. I watched most crash & burn because of lack of depth & sound teaching. Tebow’s parents are or were missionaries so one would have to assume he learned his message from them. Being raised in that lifestyle he should have learned better. He is a great kid and that alone drives the world nuts. With all of our prayers behind him I feel sure he will find the true way and be very up front with it!! I’ll be back here often. It’s hard to find true give and take when talking about our path down that narrow path.
Justin Edwards
December 13, 2011
Amen, Jim, and welcome!
Tracey
December 13, 2011
Solely basing this on the video with the inmates- not what is currently in the media in regards to Tim, I think, according to Scripture, that “The spiritual man makes judgments about all things” 1 Cor 2:15. With further revelation, (in hopes that Tim will get wind of how he presents the gospel and not to paint a picture that could lose its effectiveness) comes further responsibility. Will he continue with a watered down message or use more discernment as he matures spiritually? We are not attacking him by any means…just trying to encourage him as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. No one is questioning his faith or walk with Christ. I’m excited to hear about the platform he now has before the world, but praying, as others are, that he is careful about how he presents the gospel, to an engaging audience. I certainly applaud the persecution he’s been under and not caving in. I believe that Tim is and will be used, mightily by God, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Praying for his discernment in what he has read in books outside of God’s Word-that many Believers assume is “correct.”
brdavision
December 13, 2011
That kind of watered down gospel was what my wife and I were fed at our former church. We were even deceived into believing that we were saved. Thank God that He allowed me to see that my life was still the same way it was before I “made a decision for Christ” sinful and full of selfishness and pride.
Sometime later I was reading a sermon from John MacArthur on the Sinfulness of Sin and for the first time I was convicted of my sin in contrast to a Holy God. For the first time I understood that I was under the wrath of God with a sin debt that I could not pay and on my way to hell. It was at this moment that God allowed me to see and I cried out to God: “How can I be saved?!”
That day I was drawn by God’s Spirit to accept Christ as the full propitiation (appeasement of God’s wrath) for my sin. That day my life was changed forever….
We must study to show ourselves approved so that we will not be ashamed. We must study God’s word and present the Gospel the way He tells us in His word to present it. Lives are at stake!
Justin Edwards
December 13, 2011
Amen, brother, and nice to meet another false convert saved by God’s amazing grace. I’ve said many sinners prayers and “rededicated my life” to Christ who knows how many times. It wasn’t until God revealed His holiness to me and broke me in my sin did I finally give up on myself and self-will and control to surrender everything to Christ. It had nothing to do with me, but everything to do with the Lord.
p.s. God used John MacArthur in a similar way with me – praise the Lord for His ministry!
seventeen
December 14, 2011
NO ONE comes to the Son unless the Father draws him – i respect tebow’s works – he has been taught religion well – it is good that he takes a stand for what he believes and most of us have been where tim is. but the bottom line is that unless the Spirit draws us, it is works. i cannot answer for tim tebow – it is between him and Our Father –
but i agree that the original post was excellent – mixture of any kind is bad – it is leading us into the one world church. we have to sort it out and KNOW the FATHER and the SON and all who say, “Lord, Lord, will not enter the kindgom of God – only those who are doing the will of the Father – the attacks against tim have been good – Rom. 8:28 – And we know that all things work together for good to them that love YHWH, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
i trust that tebow will seek TRUTH and leave behind what he has been taught by man. Rom. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against YHWH: for it is not subject to the law of YHWH, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please YHWH. (the scripture is from the KJ with the restored name)
in the military, the soldier has to follow the latest command that the leader has given – we need HIS word grounded in us and when it come up as a command, we follow that order. His word cannot be a blanket statement for all occasions – it is unique and personal for each of us.
truthfully, i don’t know what i would do in leading someone to Yeshua – i have done what tim does – it was what i was taught to do – people are dying thinking that prayer is their salvation from hell – i trust that Our Father will provide me with the right words for the ones He draws to His Son.
pam
December 17, 2011
Hey seventeen, I don’t think that Justin would mind if I make this suggestion. I have learned so much from listening to Pastor Jim McClarty over at salvationbygrace.org. He explains the Sovreignty of God and salvation so well. In his Listen section, he goes thru a lot of the Books of the Bible. He is great to listen to and God has given Him an amazing gift in going thru the Word verse by verse. I suggest starting with the Book of John.
Hope this helps!
Shalom in Yeshua!
pam
Jessica
December 14, 2011
He has the whole world as his critic It is a shame that “christians” are his critics too.. If this blog was around when Jesus walked the earth I am sure you would find fault with him as well..
Justin Edwards
December 14, 2011
Hi Jessica, please consider this article, which was a follow-up to this one: Thin-skinned Christians and Accountability
lynnylou
December 16, 2011
since when was Calvinism (5 points i.e. TULIP) the Gospel?? I’ve seen lots of those who adhere to this belief fall by the wayside as to their Christian walk. I agree with “072591” when s/he says “Do you believe it is a requirement to believe in predestination in order to be saved?”. I have previously posted up a biblically-based discussion with scriptural references but what I have received in return is posts desiring to teach me their Calvinist way. Well, now that I realise this is a Calvinist-only site I shall step aside and allow the Lord Jesus Christ to reveal what is lacking here.
seventeen
December 16, 2011
lynnylou – not calvinism, not methodism, lutherism, etc. etc. hold truth – only Our Father’s word – IF you are surrendered to Yeshua, you are saved. it is not praying a prayer – it is following Yeshua – it is adhering to His teaching – keep reading the gospels and asking the Holy Spirit to teach you – Yeshua promises that He would be our teacher – the only problem is that we like the pharisees are grounded in what we have been taught by man – ask HIM to show you TRUTH and to help you to leave man’s teaching behind. many are called but few are chosen and those chosen are the ones who have surrendered their very lives to Him.
Tim Tebow is an example – he wants to share Yeshua to the world – but it takes the Spirit to do it. man or religion has failed in that respect. Only the Spirit of Our Father – blessings on you – it is a step by step walk for each of us – don’t give up –
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
lynny, “Calvinism” has always been the Gospel, since before God said “Let their be light.”
seventeen
December 16, 2011
justin, i cannot believe you wrote that
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
Why so, seventeen? “Calvinism” is just an expression affirming the biblical doctrines of grace.
lynnylou
December 16, 2011
you’ve just revealed to me all I need to know thank you Justin
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
May you continue to grow in the knowledge and amazing grace of Christ, lynny. Take care.
Mark
December 16, 2011
I would not say that Calvinism is the gospel. For the Calvinist, however, I would say that Calvinism provides the best understanding of the gospel and the God’s actions with man throughout history.
I would imagine anyone who holds to a certain theology whether Calvinism, Arminianism or that imaginary in-between position feels the same way.
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
I would defer to Charles Spurgeon on this, not because it is Spurgeon, but because I believe it is true (although I also agree Calvinism provides our best understanding of the Gospel – I think it is both, the explanation and the Gospel itself):
“I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.”
seventeen
December 16, 2011
justin, it really doesn’t matter what i believe or what you abhor, it is NOT our call – it is all in Our Father’s hands – carlton pearson believes as you and he is now teaching universalism – i sat under his wonderful teaching of just Jesus.
i mentioned that i couldn’t believe you drew attention to calvinism rather than the gospels – calvin and spurgeon were used along with other great men but they were only men –
Our Father shares HIS glory with no man.
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
seventeen, if Carlton Pearson believed as I do he would not be a universalist heretic. That is an absurd conclusion. You seem to not understand what biblical Calvinism is, which does nothing BUT point to the Gospel and the glory of God. You seem to also believe in the absolute sovereignty of God, so I’m not sure exactly what point you are trying to make, unless of course you really don’t know what Calvinism teaches. It seems you are one whether you understand the label or not. That is ok, but I encourage you to look into this, especially why it is that people call themselves “Calvinist” or “reformed”. It’s just an easy way of stating what you believe about the sovereignty of God and salvation. This might help: http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/saying-what-you-believe-is-clearer-than-saying-calvinist
seventeen
December 16, 2011
perhaps, justin, what i am trying to say is “why do we have to go through calvinism or any other great teacher that Our Father has used. why not just go to HIM.
i have witnessed older saints who thought they were saved – when it was coming down to facing death, they confessed that what they had believed was all wrong – i am sorry, justin, i believe that a lot of people have been deceived by a false gospel. friends around me face death and they once knew Yeshua and gave up following Him – i don’t pretend to be their judge – they judge themselves when they face death. they convince themselves by the statement, “i believe” – once saved always saved doctrine – but down deep inside, they are troubled in facing death.
we have gotten off a long ways from your article re: Tim Tebow. i am proud of Tim’s stand but it cannot become a “religion” – as i stated in an earlier blog, i was where tim is now – reading the gospels over and over, i realized that the gate is narrow that leads to life and broad is the way that leads to destruction. only those that KNOW Yeshua will be saved. i don’t treat the gospel as a beating post because that is not the way Our Father taught me.
To KNOW HIM is eternal life – john 17 – He drew me to HIM so i would KNOW Him.
it is evident that tim tebow has a great love for Yeshua – i pray his ears will be opened by the Spirit of Elohim to become the great leader that he can be. but again, it is not my call.
back to carlton, i would never have believed that he could change into the universal heretic that he has become. but as Yeshua says – if possible, even the elect would be deceived. my heart still hurts for cp as i know Our Father’s does.
seventeen
December 16, 2011
all through John 17 – Yeshua is talking to the Father and He keeps repeating knowing HIS Word and knowing HIS name. He didn’t mention a single great man’s name – He told us that we could pray in HIS name – HE didn’t mention a man’s name – Just His. i don’t think the devil would shake much if we mentioned calvin’s name but HE knows that Yeshua paid the price and He has to back off when we KNOW our Saviour and HIS Name. this is the point that i have been trying to convey – we don’t have to be afraid to go to Our Father without any other man’s name – Yeshua’s will do just fine.
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
seventeen, I agree with much of what you said, and again, it seems that you don’t understand the concept of using the term “Calvinism” to abbreviate one’s doctrinal positions. I have never read any of Calvin’s works (not yet anyway), so to say one is a “Calvinist” is not saying they follow Calvin or “go through Calvin”, but that they hold to the biblical doctrines of grace (TULIP). Please do read the link I posted to Desiring God as I think it will help you understand what I am trying to convey to you. Or, you might check out the series I did a couple of months ago for further examination of the Scriptures: https://airocross.com/2011/10/10/10-reasons-man-needs-a-sovereign-savior/
seventeen
December 16, 2011
justin, i did read the article you suggested: http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/saying-what-you-believe-is-clearer-than-saying-calvinist
still don’t understand why it is necessary to go the round about way instead of straight to the source.
thanks for your love and understanding through our differences.
Justin Edwards
December 16, 2011
Thanks, seventeen. To be clear, when I say I’m a “Calvinist” or I am “reformed”, it’s just a simple way of stating what I believe instead of giving 100s of verses to say what I believe every time the issue comes up. That’s all. Hope you have a great weekend.
lyn
December 16, 2011
Justin,
Here is another problem with this story, it leads to Tebow being exalted. This news story is along those lines, http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/tebow-discovers-cocaine-765312
Also, do people really think God is allowing Tebow to miraculously pull off wins just because he is a Christ follower? The Bible teaches we will face trials, tribulations, testings, etc. Nowhere does it state we will be successful, popular, and wealthy. If one believes otherwise, how do you explain that to a brother or sister in Christ who is in hiding, who gathers in secret to worship Him, who memorizes entire books of the Bible because they do not have freedom to worship or read God’s word?
By the way, I am not blaming Tim for this.
072591
December 20, 2011
The news story is kinda funny. Imagine if the dog was named Brady; it would keep looking like it’s falling for sympathy.
You bring up some good points, and we have to be careful to not assume that Christ will be our magic genie in all things. That said, it does seem that He is using Tebow for something specific, and I have a theory on what that something is.
I think that Tebow is being used by God right now to prove a point; look at all the anger and hate being given to Tebow and why. Nobody is claiming that he is a hypocrite, or stealing money, or even of being overly judgmental or condemning. By all appearances, he is simply a Christian who is living out his faith. He is staying out of trouble, giving glory to God, and those that know him make it clear that it’s not a show, or a good-luck charm.
And it is driving the world into rage-filled spasms. And they are openly declaring that it is because he is just a Christian living his faith.
No excuses being made here by the world either. No “he’s too mean” or “he’s just doing it for show.” In fact, many have said that they WANT him to be causing trouble, just so his testimony would be damaged.
When the day comes that they stand before the Lord, they will not honestly be able to say, “But how did I hate your followers without cause?” Because they are living out their hate for Christ and His followers openly.
Emcee
December 17, 2011
I wanted to not take “sides in this debate, but Justin you do not understand when someone says, “enough said!”
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which came first, Christian or Calvinist?
You believe that Calvinist position is the correct scriptural position, fine; but saying that Calvinism predates “Let there be light” is incorrect. IF Calvinism is correct, then it is not Calvinism! It is Christianity! However, the same is true for all denominations and/or labels created by men. The name “Christian,” and perhaps a few others are Scriptural (perhaps a “follower of the Way” is one of these).
Interestingly, in a sermon I recently heard on-line, John MacArthur stated that the United States of America has already been abandoned by God, because of our sins. You may recall the old saying, “If you feel far from God, guess who moved!” If America has become nation abandoned by God, who moved? Who changed? Not the immutable Yahweh! The blame for the decline in American society, can be laid at the feet of Christians themselves; for instead of being salt and light to the lost, they have turned away from His Word and allowed evil to prosper. The acceptance of the lie of evolution is one example of this, the division into denominational factions is another. It may be that the the increasing persecution of Christians will soon force us into abandoning all such labels, whether Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, or whatever, including Calvinist. In this sense, it does not matter who you are; all such labels are sinful, being born of pride, instead of humility. No wonder the world does not accept the Gospel—there are too many different “versions” of Christianity! The Church has been forced underground in many places; if it happens here, when you (anyone) are fleeing for your life you will not be claiming to be a Baptist or any other denomination when you are seeking refuge with other believers!
What can be done? Back to the Bible, everyone! Throw out all man-made creeds, confessions, catechisms, etc. and with humility seek the Father. Do not demand that your way, is the only way. This applies to all of us. And please, Justin, just because someone does not believe the same way you do, do not accuse him or her of failing to understand “exhorting, admonishing, encouraging, teaching, and correction.” There are those here who know the Bible as well as you, but have every bit as much confidence in the way they have learned tho’ it is different from your way.
Justin Edwards
December 19, 2011
Hi Emcee, you made a charge that there was “Tebow Bashing” going on, so I simply asked you to point that out so I could examine it. It bothers me when people make accusations but do not provide evidence.
The reason why “Calvinism” predates “Let there be light” is because the doctrines of grace come from God Himself. In eternity past, when only God existed, the plan of redemption was created between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Before God said “let there be light”, the Father chose a subset of a future fallen humanity to show mercy, the Son was foreordained to shed His blood to purchase this people, and the Holy Spirit promised to regenerate and seal forever all whom the Father gave to the Son. This is the essence of “Calvinism”, and as Mark mentioned earlier, it gives us the best understanding of the Gospel. Truly, this plan of redemption is Plan A. It was designed before the beginning of time and has been carried out to the T, all for the glory of God (go here for Scripture: https://airocross.com/2011/10/10/10-reasons-man-needs-a-sovereign-savior/). If you want to call it Christianity, that is fine by me. I agree. But because there are differences among Christians with regards to these biblical doctrines, using the term “Calvinism” merely distinguishes one’s doctrinal positions.
As far as questioning someone’s understanding of biblical correction and accountability, I stand by that statement. Mike continued to demonstrate that his arguments were based on his emotions and feelings, and not on Scripture. He took issue with raising these questions as to Tebow’s Gospel presentation and methodology, as if Tebow is untouchable or on some pedestal. No one is on any such pedestal, and we are each accountable to each other and before the Lord, especially in matters of the Gospel.
So at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter what you believe or what you have learned if these beliefs do not line up with Scripture. We can’t all be right. But if one is going to make an argument against a position, they would do well to back it up with Scripture or else be entirely discredited.